Adoption Triangle Or Adoption Triad

Question: Which voice is heard the most in the adoption triad? In your opinion, which voice is heard most often in the adoption triad? Why do you think so? For example, if you think adoptees' voices seem to be the "most heard" recently, and you think it should be another voice, whose and why?

Answer: Dear Mei-Ling, Ap's definitely. It should be the adoptee's voice heard most because adoption is all about them. Second in line first mothers. Everyone needs to have compassion and hear their stories the good, the bad and the ugly. Lastly the aparents. Why? because without mothers and adoptees there would be no adoption. Thanks for this question:)

Question: Adoption Triad Members: Do you feel successful in life? I do mean to post this in the adoption section. Please answer no matter where you are in the triad. Whether you are pro-adoption or not. Do you feel successful in life? If you do not feel successful, what do you think it will take to feel successful? I'm not debating whether adoption is right or not- no soap boxes pleeeeease. All I'd like to know is do you feel successful in life.

Answer: For the most part. I have made my share of mistakes like anyone else, but I am happy and to me that is thebest measure of success

Question: For those who belong to more than one role in the "adoption triad"? I know we have some people here who are both an adoptee and a birthmother and some who are both an adoptee and an adoptive parent. Whether it be adoptee/birth mother or adoptee/ adoptive parent, how do you think these duel roles have shaped your thoughts, feeling, attitudes about adoption? Do you find that one of these roles has shaped you more than the other?

Answer: Wow, one in the morning is way too late to be thinking this hard LOL. I am an adoptee and nmom. My son was coerced from me prior to my reunion with my natural mom. At the time I bought all the promises of us both having a better life after. I really thought I was holding the reins. Part of me saw that the social worker wasn't really giving me an option but I was desperate to think I was doing the "right" thing. I was young and ignorant. After meeting my mom and hearing her story I started to think about Justin's adoption. I started to hear the threats behind the social worker's words and by that time my open adoption was closed. I think that at the time of his adoption I was not thinking about my own adoption at all. After meeting with my mom and discovering this amazing family who was out there waiting for me I slowly started to see the darker side of adoption. I also started seeing a therapist for an eating disorder and in the process I was amazed at how often I brought up being adopted. It was as if I finally accepted that I was an adoptee. Prior to this I had just pushed it out of my mind for the most part. Unless I was making up imaginary "birth" families to cover my sense of loss over my amom's death. I think that the role of adoptee has shaped me far more. I have been adopted for 30+ years. I grew up adopted, learned how to be "me" adopted and was coerced into adoption as an adopted person. So while they have both helped shape the adult I am now being adopted also shaped the infant, child and teen that I was.

Question: Where do you stand in the Adoption Triad? What new laws/guidelines would you enforce or change?

Answer: I'm an adult who was adopted as an infant I would enforce the abolition of 'amended' (falsified) 'birth' Certificates

Question: Is the term "triad" a misnomer when discussing adoption? The industry plays a huge role in dealing of babies an children, shouldn't that be accounted for? Adoptees rarely have a voice in the process of adoption - so is it really about "3 equal sides?"

Answer: As an adoptee, I'm not part of a triangle. I'm part of a tug-of-war. My loyalties to my adoptive parents and my feelings about my first family pull me first one way, and then another. Society has expectations of how I should behave and act. I'm expected, by nearly everyone, to align with one side or the other. If I did that, it wouldn't be a triangle. It'd be a line with me on one side, with one family, posed against the other one. And society, agencies, and groups like the NCFA (including their allies, some of whom hang out here) all try to influence me and tell me which side I belong on. In engineering, the triangle is the most stable secure shape. But the way I, as an adoptee, am expected to relate to my two families is far from stable or secure.

Question: Why is that in the adoption triad, adoptive parents are the ones not allowed to have any negative feelings...? Without being 'labeled' as selfish? But, adoptees and natural families are ALWAYS "allowed/accepted" to express their feelings. All are HUMAN. All humans have feelings... it's just natural! WITHOUT BEING LABELED AS SELFISH... finish reading the question people.

Answer: LT- I don't think Kristy means IRL i think she means on cyber space especially this site A.parents are not allowed to express negative thoughts. I agree with you Kristy. After all baby stealers, opportunists, selfish infertile people need to keep their mouth shut. As for me i don't feel comfortable saying this but after reading the negativity here i wonder 20 years later will my daughter be attacking A.P's and P.A.P's here because she hated her "adopted" status inspite of loving us . ETA- Mei Ling - "point me to a forum that ...." I have e-mailed you the name of a forum i visit where their are birth mothers , adoptees and A.P's and no one is allowed to make that nasty comment you mentioned. Thumbs down - Those A.P's POV is heard here as long as they choose to agree with the comments of this forum.

Question: Is "adoption triad" really accurate terminology? Aren't there more parties involved in an adoption than three? Why are the others not mentioned, especially in light of the fact of the additional powerful roles they play in the process? (agencies/ lawmakers/ judges/ social workers, etc.) Is there anything that would be more accurate? Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.

Answer: No the 'triad' does not exist. The Adoptee, the Adopters, the First Parents, the State and the adoption 'professionals' - now, my math is not the greatest by my own admission but, that makes FIVE, right? In addition, the word triad/triangle implies that all the sides are equal (cough cough) This is wildly innacurate in relation to adoption. The ADOPTEE is the only member of the 'triad' whose civil rights are abrogated

Question: Why do people who are not members (or prospective members) of the adoption triad...? ...hang out in the adoption section? It's very odd, and so often, they post very strong opinions about something that they know nothing about. Wouldn't it be boring to answer questions that don't pertain to your life at all? No snark intended. I'm being completely serious.

Answer: I've often wondered that. Honestly, I think adoption is one of those subjects that people just think they *know*. I've had people with zero experience in adoption comment to me, usually about how wonderful it is and how my son is so lucky, the usual drivel. I've found the same thing with fostering, interestingly. People seem to view a fostered or adopted child as 'communal property' somehow. It's odd.

Question: How much does confidence have to do with adoption? Please state your position in the adoption triad (adoptive parents, 1st parent, adoptee), and how having more or less confidence would have affected your adoption decisions.

Answer: First parent - low self confidence which had no part in my adoption decision as I didn't choose adoption I chose to parent. I was bullied and lied into surrendering which knocked my confidence even more.

Question: Are you careful about the advice you receive in the Adoption category? I am a mother to two babies adopted at birth. I am aware of many of the laws within our state concerning adoption and I am very mindful of my adoption language as well as promoting a positive view on adoption for those who want to know more about the process or who are thinking of adopting. The support given to everyone who posts a question in this catergory is tremendous. It's great to see others offering their advice and words of well wishes to those on all sides of the adoption triad. However, I've noticed that sometimes the advice given is based on opinion or misinformation rather than fact. So, please keep in mind that not everything you read here is considered to be lawful or factual. Use this forum as a resource, but make sure you check out your own state's laws as well during your research. Adoption is wonderful and I hope that everyone considering adoption, placing a child for adoption, or searching for birthparents to be well informed.

Answer: I think that anyone, regardless of the category that they are posting a question in, should take all that they read here with a pinch of salt. Yes, most of it is personal opinion and therefore should never be taken as the gospel truth . . . I am wondering how many people believe everything they read here. . . . some of the questions do amaze me but I think that if people have half a brain, they would get some general advice here but back it up properly with more specialised and verified advice . . . . surely?! Thanks for your post - and concern! Best wishes.

Question: Why are the adoption trolls getting so boring? It's been a long time since we had a really inventive troll on the adoption board. If they're going to spend (waste) time making up tall tales, can't they at least make 'em good? PQ: What is your role in the adoption triad?

Answer: I'll bite. I'm an adoptive mother of a growing brood. I'm incredibly hot and slim. I have bizarre relationships and used to wear a vial of my lover's blood around my neck. I stole my latest husband from his wife. I'm estranged from my father because he had the audacity to suggest I may be mentally ill. I'm coming to adopt all your children, have their bags packed and ready please. I'll take your fiancee too while I'm at it.

Question: Roll Call? Who are you within the adoption "triad"? No thumbs down please. There are so many new people here. It might help us understand each other better and our individual points of view. Thanks. I'm an adoptive mom. We have 5 girls. 2 were adopted into our family. One domestic adoption and one IA Ethiopia adoption. Once our girls are older, we hope to become foster parents. Dear Autumn, I should have mentioned anyone touched by adoption or having ties to adoption too. I'm glad you answered:)

Answer: I am a mother who relinquished my son 12 years ago.

Question: Is there anything in newborn or baby adoption that AP's, Adoptees and First Parents agree on? I am not talking about Foster Care or abuse situations. What areas of infant adoption are OK for all parties, if any? Is there any agreement at all in the Triad for reform for infant adoptions?

Answer: um...here's what I would like people to agree on (and i know it will never happen...but..) 1- don't claim babies in the wombs of other women 2- don't use babies to "fix" infertility 3- don't normalize birthing and handing over one's flesh and blood 4- don't demonize women who change their mind 5- don't slam shut open adoption agreements 6- don't adopt babies who could otherwise be cared for by his or her parents (money doesn't make a good parent) 7- don't have adoptive parents hanging around the delivery room. 8- don't "fight" for a contested adoption 9- don't change a child's name 10- don't "lie" about about giving birth via an "amended birth certificate." 11- don't label EVERY adoptee born to an unwed mother or teen as "unwanted" or "unloved" only babies for whom the mother and father and family have stated they do NOT wish to raise (after birth, without any interference from "adoption counselors") should be available for adoption. anything else...not so much.

Question: Do you think the internet has helped or hurt adoption? After all, now natural parents and children have more resouces to adopt. First parents who wish to place can actually find out how, their rights, and with forums like this, we can all be educated about the adoption triad, the feelings of other persons involved. What's your opinion?

Answer: Helped both ways, My daughter found me this way !

Question: Has becoming a parent changed your views on adoption? My views changed drastically after having my own kids. I understood my a-parents more in their desire to have a family. I appreciated what my bio-mom had been though more profoundly, and my desire to meet her and curiosity grew. I'm wondering about others regardless of what part of the adoption triad you are. Heather, I had the same feelings. And I like how you refer to 'our" origins.

Answer: GREAT question! I was a teen mom (16). I remember watching a movie in class about a mom who realized that caring for her daughter was too difficult on her own & decided to give up her child when the child was about 18 months old - close to the age I was when I was taken from my first mom and placed in foster care. Being pregnant, seeing this, and listening to the music in the movie that TO THIS DAY - over 30 years later - reminds me of that film (Beatles, There Are Places/Remember), and of course, seeing myself in that blonde haired girl on screen, made me really realize what my first mom went through. For the FIRST time, I really really really understood how painful and difficult her decision must have been. At the time, I had no way of knowing my adoption WASN'T her decision, but rather had been forced by Social Services. I had no plans of giving my daughter up, and like Tish wrote, after labor & delivery, there was no EFING way I would have given her over to anyone else. It came around again when my daughter gave birth to my granddaughter. I was in the room when she arrived. I watched that little person come into this world through her mom, who I had given birth to, it turns out...in the SAME ROOM of the hospital I had labored in with her mother. That little girls has helped heal the 'breaks' in my heart. The places that were previously unable to fully connect. The year my granddaughter turned three was excruciatingly difficult for me emotionally. I wasn't sure what was going on, but eventually realized that I was her age - just 3 - when my foster parents adopted me. There are places I remember all my life, Though some have changed Some forever, not for better Some have gone and some remain. All these places have their moments Of lovers and friends I still can recall Some are dead and some are living In my life I loved them all. And with all these friends and lovers There is no one compares with you And these mem'ries lose their meaning When I think of love as something new And I know I'll never lose affection For people and things that went before I know I'll often stop and think about them. In my life I loved you more.

Question: If you had a daughter who was pregnant and considering adoption what would you do? Based on your views of adoption, place in triad, how would you handle this. I'm sure some have been in this position already, what did you do? No, none of my girls are pregnant...I ask because it seems some on here are against hearing fully all the possible effects of relinquishment. What if this were your daughter? Wouldn't you want them to be fully informed?

Answer: I actually had this with my step daughter that I raised from the age of 6 to about 17 when she moved back in with her mother. She became pregnant in high school. The father's mother was horrible and accused my daughter who is a bit older than he of all kinds of things. So, he is out of her life. She had the baby, delivered with her mother on one side of her and me on the other side of her holding her legs while she pushed. It was beautiful. My grandson is now 9, with his mother, and she is married and has another baby girl. Her husband adopted her son, so that there is a father listed, but we still have his real father's information so that when he is older he will be able to contact him if he chooses. There was never a question of her surrendering, or aborting. She was going to have a baby, circumstances were not optimal, but so what. We made the best of it, and it all worked out just fine, and he knows exactly who he is and where he comes from. She finished high school in the Teen Parenting Program, and is working on a degree. She is just fine, thank you very much. And, the three mothers shared this beautiful experience. I wouldn't trade it for one moment.

Question: Is adoption a "loss" for all 3 parts of the triad"? I read an answer elsewhere where an AP contends that: "Adoption is usually a loss for all three parts of the triad" She then goes on to support her argument by relaying her trials with infertility and her seemingly still raw grief about not being able to have a biological child. No mention of her daughter's massive losses... While very sad, those "losses" have nothing to do with adoption, do they? They occurred before any adoption ever took place, and they would exist if an adoption took place or not. Do you think many APs blur their preexisting losses into their adoptee's losses? Are all parts of the triad really all equal losers, so to speak? Is the APs "loss" another burden (i.e. more emotional baggage) for the adopted child to bear?

Answer: I don't feel that adoptive parents lose anything as a result of adoption. They may have had other losses in their life... for many adoptive parents, though by no means all, infertility is a big one... but that loss is separate from adoption, and can't really be conflated. It was not caused by nor the result of adoption, it was a separate trauma. Now of course, in SOME cases, the losses of adoptees and first parents are not ALL directly caused by adoption either. For example, if the child is already orphaned, or already in foster care, the child and parents would not be together even if adoption didn't exist. However, as adoption is currently practiced, most adoptees lose their original records and often lose ties to their families that they would still have if adoption didn't exist, so that loss is caused by adoption. In many cases of infant relinquishment, if adoption didn't exist those families would still be together. There are clear losses to both adoptees and first parents that are the direct result of adoption and not prior or tangential to it, even in cases when adoption is necessary, but particularly in cases where it was not. Adoptive parents may have been through very real losses. But not BECAUSE of adoption, and that's the difference. I think it's too much of a burden for ANY parent to put their previous losses on their children's shoulders. Unfortunately, lots of people do. Not just adoptive parents. (For example, I know a family with no connection to adoption who basically forced one biological child into the role of replacing another biological child who had died. Also a burden; also not healthy.) But even though any family can do this, I think it's something adoptive parents especially have to watch out for, because the other losses in adoption may already make the adoptee feel conflicted and burdened, so adding more is particularly problematic.

Question: Where can i find adoption statistics and interviews with adoption "triad"? Hi, all. the very first time i visited this forum i was absolutely shocked by 7rin's answer. i'd never once before heard anyone being critical of adoption as a general practice. but i wondered why someone would feel this way. i also saw others who seemed to share 7rin's views. i kept coming back and really looking at what these critics had to say. now, i think about this in a whole new light. i've begun to question everything i ever thought about adoption. and i'm trying to more fully understand everything about it, as i'd like to become a social worker one day, probably the policy making sort, when i can afford to go for my post-grad degree. i'm even thinking of writing my thesis on the subject. so i'm currently trying to educate myself on the subject. i was wondering if anyone knew of websites or online journals with accurate, relevant, and recent stats on adoption, such as numbers and percentages of surrender by race of the mother and adopters, numbers of interracial children surrendered, percentages of surrendering mothers by socioeconomic status, marriage status, and so on. also, are there any good articles in magazines or online journals with the members of the so called triad? i'm currently waiting on my library to get "The Primal Wound" in. i'm also going to look for adoption books at thrift stores. i'd like to get the whole picture, so i've been visiting all sorts of websites, including forums for adopters and adopted persons, natural mothers, and so on. thanks for the help and for opening my eyes to the fact that there are way more sides to this issue than i'd ever realized. thank you, 7rin. i wish this were a regular forum for discussions and not just questions. i'd really like to talk with you and other back and forth about the topic. i've been looking for articles all week. i wanted to assign "The Primal Wound" to my book club, but it is not widely available. i've assigned "Handle with Care" by Jodi Picoult in stead. it does have an adoption backstory. and i'm going to read "Primal Wound" before our meeting and spread some info around. btw, have you watched "Teen Mom"? you should visit the forums for the show and share. i've just been looking at the adoptive mother forum on adoption.com. most seem like really nice people. but the jealousy some express toward nmoms is kinda shocking. similarly, the regret expressed by some nmoms is shocking. thanks, everyone. i'm going to take a look at all these sites and books as i get time.

Answer: If you join up with www.touchedbyadoptionforums.com (click on FORUMS) - I'll activate your account - you will be able to look at a load of articles including one of the magazines articles about me. On the front page there is also includes a tab for links so if you go to that page you will see links for blogs. If you do join this is the link for the article about me http://www.touchedbyadoptionforums.com/f… but you can only see it if you're logged in. This is a newspaper article about me: http://www.mirror.co.uk/life-style/real-… Another site of mine is http://www.hannahsplace.org.uk There is a tab for blogs and this is the direct link for my one http://yourblogs.hannahsplace.org.uk - this is a new one. This is a blog I've had since 2006 http://relinquishingandreunion.blogspot.…

Question: Why do you think adoption records are sealed? I've been doing some reading lately and came across a paper outlining the reasons why adoption records are sealed. It states that they were originally sealed, at least in many states in the US, to prevent the public from accessing the information and potentially blackmailing the adoptee or their birth parents over the adoption. Keeping in mind that at those times adoption was not something that was talked about "in polite company". It also states that "Sealing court and adoption agency records was never designed to exclude members of the adoption triad from examining their adoption records." If that is the case, how did things get to where they are today? ++++++++++++++++ In case anyone is wondering, the article I am referring to is called "Sealed Adoption Records in Historical Perspective" and was written by Dr E. Wayne Carp, PhD. It was published in Adoption Quarterly, Vol. 5(2), 2001. Actually Theresa, my reading indicates something totally different. "Originally, the amended birth certificate, whereby the adopted child is issued a second birth certificate and the original one is sealed, was first publicly proposed in a paper delivered at the American Public Health Association annual meeting in 1930 by Sheldon L. Howard, Illinois State Registrar of Vital Statistics, and Henry B. Hemenway, Medical Registrar at the Vital Statistics Division of the Illinois Department of Public Health. Their stated purposes were to increase the statistical accuracy of birth records and to promote the welfare of illegitimate and adopted children. By 1948, nearly every state had enacted into law Howard and Hemenway’s proposal. But there is no evidence that child welfare officials ever intended this to prevent adopted children from gaining access to their original one. Wegar, K. (1997). Adoption, identity and kinship: The debate over sealed birth records. New Haven: Yale Uni Press

Answer: i think it's too allow the afamily to bond as a family. open adoption was something considered back then and i think people wanted to bond as a family, natural or not and having that lingering thought that the nfamily could come back at any time would have been unsettling for an afamily. I was part of that sealed record generation. I'm fine with it.

Question: Adoption triad: Mothers' Day and your feelings about it?

Answer: I hate it. I have 2 Mothers, but society doesn't want me to acknowledge that fact. But screw society, I say Happy Mother's Day to both...because they are both just that- my Mother.