Matrilineal Descent

Question: Do you think Jewish matrilineal descent laws are made to increase the number of Jews? Society views the father's heritage/religion as the dominant one. So for the most part if a Jew male marries a non-Jew, the kids will be raised as Jews and identify as Jews (because it's hard not to with a last name like Goldstein) So by instituting the matrilineal descent laws, if a non-Jew male marries a Jew, she feels that it's her duty to raise the kids as Jews and the kids knowing this information will identify as Jews. So in the end, whatever the outcome, a union between a Jew and a non-Jew ends in Jewish kids.

Answer: THE OBVIOUS ANSWER IS YES

Question: Is one considered Jewish if they have matrilineal descent, even if not raised in the religion? My mother's line is Jewish, although long since having abandoned the faith; I got into Jewish cultural studies, and love these aspects of Judaism, although I am an Atheist. So, would I be considered Jewish?

Answer: As long as no one in the line has converted, then you could be considered Jewish. The liberal movements won't ask you to prove it either. :-) Welcome, love.

Question: Where in the Old Testament did God command the Jewish people to practice matrilineal descent? I am aware that Judaism accepts converts, but do not understand matrilineal descent. It doesn't make sense to me that the child of a Jewish man and a Catholic woman is not Jewish, but the child of a Jewish woman and a Catholic man is Jewish.

Answer: there is no commandment, it is just implied in several biblical verses/stories that make it clear that the children of a jewish mother were always jewish, but a non-jewish mother were not considered jewish. EDIT there are several reasonings behind it: a) you ALWAYS know the religion of the mother, but the father is iffy. b) the mother, in judaism, is the more spiritual and moral one, and therefore more likely to pass on "jewish values" however, this rule only became absolute jewish law after the romans invaded israel, and were raping and impregnating the jewish women. the rabbis had to make it clear that children of jewish mothers were fully jewish, no matter who their father was, in order to prevent discrimination against these children

Question: Does the matrilineal descent system imply matriarchy?

Answer: Not necessarily because matrilineal descent simply determines a person's birth right & males may inherit the power instead of females inheriting it. Certain Jewish sects inherit birth rights from the female, but are patriarchal concerning power.

Question: All humans can trace their matrilineal descent to an African woman from 200,000 years ago. So...? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/mtdna.html Doesn't that mean we're all the descendants of Africans? ALL humans, yes ALL, can trace their matrilineal descent back to a woman that lived in Africa 200,000 years ago. She was given the name "Eve". This is a scientific and a well known fact, just Google it. You'll see it on all of the major science research websites. With that being said, how can we all be unrelated and of differing 'races'? Question 2: Doesn't that mean we're ALL inbred? http://www.science.tv/watch/04bd3baee84a12e98098/Mitochondrial-Eve Watch this video on SCIENCE TV about our 1 common ancestor. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1TKiQoNCB0&eurl=http://www.science.tv/watch/04bd3baee84a12e98098/Mitochondrial-Eve That's it on You Tube.

Answer: I dont bloody wanna be related to most the people ive encountered in life. but i determine blood by people in my family...obviously humans had to come from somewere someone.

Question: How far back can maternal descent go in proving someone is Jewish? Rabbinic Judaism goes by matrilineal descent, so hypothetically, if someone's great, great, great, great maternal grandmother was Jewish according to Jewish Law but none of the other women in that line after that, nor the mother of the person herself practiced Judaism, would that person still be considered a Jew by birth and not have to convert if they wanted to practice the religion?

Answer: I thought it was 4 generations, but I'm not too sure. I believe you may have to convert. Speak w/ local rabbi or J.C.C. Any j.c.c. website will give you a number or email address and they will help you. They answer a lot of my questions for research and are very helpful. Have fun.

Question: what is avunculocal residence? how does it compare to matrilineal descent?

Answer: Matrilineal descent is just a direct ancestral line through females (mothers). However, the end (current) of the line can be either male or female. Avunculocal residence is not a "descendancy". In Avunculocal residence, women take residence with their husbands after marriage and their children stay with them until adulthood. HOWEVER then, sons are expected to move into the household of their mother's brother and daughters continue on by moving into their husbands households. The tie between the two terms is that Avunculocal residence is common in matrilineal societies...it in theory ultimately brings all adult males of a matrilineage into a single residence. Certain Jewish societies followed this pattern and it has been used on and off over the eons by most cultures.

Question: Explain how your family is structured by either patrilineal, matrilineal, or bilateral descent?

Answer: within my own family ie father, mother and 4 sisters, my father was in charge. he brought the bread, mum minded us and the home. thats patrilineal. but we live in an extended family with grandma being in charge of the clan. so within the clan its matrilineal. and there are many such societies in the world. in africa and esp in minangkabau, sumatra where women own everything, decide everything until the change their religion and the society underwent changes too. its still to a large extent matrilineal. when those relatives from my mum side interfered and my dad's side too - that's messy and that is in some ways bilateral esp when we make decisions trying to accomodate the 2 grps. nuclear family is the least complicated

Question: Is the Jewish theolgical policy of matrilineal descent insane? Why should Jewish men be punished?

Answer: The Old Testament says that they blessing of being a Hebrew comes through Men not women, the Covenent is of Abraham, not Sarah. Then it passed to Issac, not Rebekah. Finally to Jacob not to Leah or Rachel. The idea that your a Hebrew through the mother is a false teaching.

Question: If Judaism is neither a race or a religion, is it a racial blood cult that believes in matrilineal descent? Jews have to be born of a Jewish woman. dapperdan, There is no way that a person not born of a Jewish mother is considered 100% Jewish when they convert. Why pretend to be ignorant of this? There is no way that a convert to Judaism would ever be the Prime Minister of Israel. dapperdan, how am I spreading a libel about Judaism? I understand that Ruth was a convert. Why did she have to convert? Don't tell me God required it. Abraham, Issac, Jacob, David, etc. all married foreign women before Ruth. Were they less Jewish for it? Matrilineal descent is institutionalized racism. Jesus was the Messiah, a descendant of Ruth through Mary and David. Your use of the word libel is silly. dapperdan, you don't understand the definition of libel. I said that Jews have to be born of a Jewish mother. That is accurate. I'm aware people can convert to Judaism, but stop pretending that Sammy Davis Jr. was 100% Jewish. Jews do not try to win converts. Are you denying this? Why else would Orthodox Jews forbid their men to marry Gentiles? dapperdan, I don't appreciate your "libel" that my question is not sincere. Especially since you admitted that Abraham, Issac, Jacob, and Esau married foreign wives. I understand that Jews and Muslims accept converts. There is a reason that you don't see either actively proselytizing. Obviously, neither really want converts. dapperdan, I never "called Judaism racist", I asked whether it was. Your own words don't really convince me otherwise. You say that once a person is born of a Jewish woman they are always Jewish. That implies that if they stop practicing the faith, their blood ties them to all Jews. That is what I mean by racial blood cult. Catholicism is also a blood cult by the way. The blood being Christ's. Here is what you said: "Technically, all Jews-by-birth are descended from converts, Abraham and Sarah. It's in the soul, not in the blood. It's a special quality of the soul of a Jewish woman that imparts itself to a child. Think about this: Those who are born into the Jewish people can never leave. They can tell themselves that they have, and others can say the same. But according to the Torah, they will always be Jews (a sincere convert, similarly, once they become Jewish, cannot cease to be Jewish). A Jew does not have the power to become a non-Jew." Sorry, but this is pretty creepy. I also don't appreciate your "libel" that I said Judaism is institutionalized racism. I asked whether matrilineal descent is a racial blood cult. Why? Because it makes no sense for a religion to persecute men who want to marry Gentile women. Also, it makes no sense for a religion to not try to convert the entire planet. If you cannot stop being Jewish once you are Jewish, how can the child of a Jewish man not be considered Jewish if the mother is Christian? Sorry, but matrilineal descent is clearly a racial blood cult. You said it yourself. The child of a Jewish woman can never stop being Jewish. dapperdan, I don't know what to make of this: "If a Chinese man and a Chinese woman have a child, do you call them racist for insisting that their child is also Chinese?" This seems to imply that Judaism is a race. I never raised a scenario where two Jewish people had a child and insisted the child be non-Jewish. ??? dapperdan, I wish I added "Judaism also accepts converts". Would you have been as upset? I can only understand your responses if you were thinking of that whacko anti-Semitic "blood libel" about Jews sacrificing Christian children. That is insane..."Borat" believes that no doubt. I am sincere in my question as to whether matrilineal descent creates a racial blood cult. Again, Christianity is a blood cult whether people admit or not...why do you think Mel Gibson made his "Passion" movie into a horror show? There is also the cult of the Virgin Mary which resembles the Egyptian goddess Isis and the Greek and Roman goddesses as well. I hope you are not still offended by my use of term 'blood cult'. Are you aware that Catholics drink the 'blood of Christ' every Sunday at Mass? We refer to Christ's blood as the new covenant. Your words: "Also, the descendants of converts are Jewish from birth. Where's the blood connection there?" That is the blood connection you silly fool! dapperdan says: "So this means that you think either Judaism shouldn't be hereditery, or that it should be passed through both mother and father." AMEN!!! You have seen the light. You have admitted that Judaism is hereditary, therefore it acknowledges a "blood connection" between mother and child. Dapperdan says: "It seems to me that the issue of heredity in religion and transubstantiation in religious rites aren't related at all except that both involve the word blood" Wrong. The blood of Christ was Jewish blood that was shed for all irregardless of whether their mother was Jewish. My point was not so much about transubstantiation in the Eucharist as much as His Jewish blood dripping from a scourging and crucifixition. Dapperdan says: "It's not a cult. Matrilineal descent is not a cult, and Judaism is not a cult. Unless you're using "cult" as a synonym for religion" Thank you Dapperdan, Judaism and its matrilineal descent is a blood cult. A religion about the blood (geneology) of your descendants, especially your mother. Dapperdan says "So there you have it - irrefutable proof that Judaism and it's practices cannot constitute a racial blood cult, as they have nothing to do with race or blood nor do they constitute a cult. A normal person, after having his *** handed to him like this, would probably stop using such a flagrantly erroneous and abusive term, but something tells me that it won't stop YOU. Because you know better." LOL. You admit everything I suspected, you contradict yourself, you are always offensive and absurdly arrogant, you distort what I say, and then you agree with me in the end. WOW. I never said Judaism was racist. I asked whether matrilineal descent is a racial blood (geneology) cult (religion). I'm sorry but I do believe the dogma or whatever you call it of matrilineal descent smells like racism. Now, feel free to be arrogant and offensive if you like. Maybe I should of said "racial geneology religion" instead of "racial blood cult". Would that have angered you? Oy vey? Sorry dapperdan, I couldn't resist. This is the best. I chose this because it shows you as offensive and absurdly arrogant and irrational. Your words: " Assuming the lesser of two evils, that you think Judaism is seriously flawed, and Jewishness can come from mother or father, then YOU'RE the one tying Jewishness to blood. You're the one advocating the racial blood cult - not us! So put that in your pipe (which I'm guessing at this point might be a crack pipe) and smoke it!" You admit that Jewishness comes from a Jewish a mother, that there is a blood connection (through flesh and blood from your mother, through geneology), which no doubt is equally present from the father, yet somehow I am responsible for tying Jewishness to blood or geneology? Unless you think I am God, you are mistaken. I didn't give you matrilineal descent. Meshuggah? Dapperdan says "PS: I see you've edited your answer a few more times, inserting stuff into the middle." Sorry DD, you can't edit "additional comments" you can only add new ones. You are paranoid. Dapperdan says "Okay, so it sounds like you're saying all Jews should be converts. But you have already said a dozen times that Jews don't accept converts (which must be your personal preference, since it bears no resemblance to the actual tenets of Judaism). So by your logic, Jews should not exist. QED, *****." ??? When did I say that Jews don't accept converts? I said from the start that Abraham, Issac, Esau, and Jacob had foreign wives you silly man! Why do you assume I have some libelous agenda? I took it for granted that people know that you can convert to Judaism and that very very very few people do and that Jews don't actively proselytize. Seriously, you have poor reading comprehension. This is not fun for me either DD. This is what happens when YOU associate the insane "blood libel" with the use of the word cult (religion). If anyone has been libeled here it is me. You are now saying that I said Jews don't accept converts. Dapperdan says, "You keep saying that one's blood comes from both mother and father. And yet basing Jewish lineage on the mother and not the father is racism. Yet I say it can't possibly be so, because if we WERE concerned with blood, then it WOULD come from both mother and father. And as I've stated previously, the children of a female Jew-by-choice are born Jewish! By your logic, King David wasn't Jewish (and if you believe that Mary Jesus' mother was descended from King David, it follows that Jesus wasn't Jewish - which is a claim that even I wouldn't make). Onkelos wasn't Jewish. Rabbi Akiva (one of the most famous Jewish sages in history), by your reckoning can't be Jewish on account of his blood (his parents were converts). And yet I'M the one espousing racism." Again, I pointed out that Jews have been marrying outside their "race" very early in this long annoying post which I'm wishing never happened because you get more and more obnoxious, arrogant, offensive, and paranoid. Dapperdan: "Frankly, I think you're simply projecting your own hypocrisy on to me because you don't like what I'm saying. I've made my point, and I stand by it." Hypocrisy? When did I contradict myself? Give a single example. Dapperdan: "If you really cared about this issue, you would be open to the possibility that you are mistaken (and you are mistaken), or would at least pursue the issue with an authority on the subject rather than asking random people their opinion on Yahoo! - which appears more an attempt to stir up anti-Semitic sentiment than to get an answer to a burning question." This is libel. You are accusing me of having an agenda to spread hate and bigotry. Pretty lame Dapperdan. The truth is that you are angry about the word "blood cult". I told you Christianity is a "blood cult". How old are you seriously, 13? You honestly think there are people on this planet that think that Jews don't accept converts? Get real. Everybody knows that Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Esau, and David had foreign wives. Everyone knows Ruth was a Moab. Everyone knows the Virgin Mary was a descendant of Ruth. You are such a time-waster. I'm getting sick of this. Dapperdan, "Lastly, there are over 14 million Jews in the world, and Judaism is the very foundation upon which western civilization rests - it is the parent religion of both Christianity and Islam. Therefore, only a complete and total schmuck would call it a cult." Now you have completely lost your mind. When did I ever bash Judaism as a religion? When did I ever say you should convert to Christianity? When did I ever deny Jesus (Yesh'ua), Peter (Cephas), and Paul (Saul) were Jewish? You call yourself a schmuck here. LOL. Would you like to see where you admitted Judaism is a cult (religion)? "It's not a cult. Matrilineal descent is not a cult, and Judaism is not a cult. Unless you're using "cult" as a synonym for religion" So schmuck, read about Judaism on Wikipedia, it says Judaism is often described as neither a race or a religion. Yet you assume I have an anti-Semitic agenda for asking what Judaism is. I never said Judaism was racist. I asked whether matrilineal descent is. If a Jewish man has a child with a Gentile, why is the child not considered Jewish? What about all that stuff about never losing your Jewishness? EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS JEWS ACCEPT CONVERTS DAPPERDAN!!!!EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS THAT RUTH WAS NOT JEWISH AND THAT DAVID, MARY, AND JESUS ARE DESCENDED FROM HER!!!!WHAT PROOF DO YOU HAVE THAT THE FOREIGN WIVES OF ABRAHAM, ISSAC, JACOB, AND ESAU WERE CONVERTS????????????!!!!!!!!!!!! Dapperdan: "Clearly, Judaism is more than simply a religion" For the love of the God of Abraham, please tell me what you mean by this!!!!!!! Interesting that you choose "Prime Minister of Israel," a political position, and not a job of religious import. I bet that a Hindu convert to Christianity isn't likely to be elected president of the United States. Should we conclude that that that former Hindu is therefore not a Christian? A Christian convert to Judaism will never be prime minister of Israel for the same reason that a Jew will never be President of the United States. Is this political reality not known as racism? Why did George Allen's mom tell him she was French-Italian with a little bit of Spanish blood? Racism. She didn't want him to be considered Jewish. Dapperdan says: "The above statement makes absolutely no sense. Just because someone is Jewish does not make their child Jewish. The child of an intermarriage, where the husband is Jewish, didn't "stop being Jewish," they were never Jewish in the first place. And the father never ceased to be Jewish. So where's the problem?" In a billion years the laws of logic and reason will not render this a sane paragraph. Just because someone is Jewish does not make their child Jewish? Are you denying that a Jewish woman's child is Jewish? If a Jewish woman marries a Catholic man and has a child, is that child Jewish? Dapperdan: "You have affirmed now both that Judaism accepts converts, and that a convert is not Jewish." Are you insane? I never said that a convert is not Jewish. Dapperdan: "I am denying that a Jewish MAN'S child is Jewish if the mother is not. The mother is they key, which is, again, why Judaism can't be a "racial blood cult," as "race" and "blood" are transmitted through both mother and father, and Judaism is not. I think this is the 100th time I've explained this - it's a wonder ballons don't fall from the ceiling to the sound of sirens." This is completely insane...the idea that Judaism is passed from mother to son. What about all that talk about a Jewish man never losing his Jewish soul? So only a Jewish woman can create a Jewish soul? That is completely insane. Where does God tell the Jews this? Dapperdan: "Clearly, Judaism is more than simply a religion" Explain this Dapperdan, you are obviously in a position to know what 'more than simply a religion' means. Dapperdan "Yes. Actually, you're describing my father. He's a Jew who was raised Catholic, and grew to harbor a strong resentment towards religion in general, largely thanks to intolerant jackasses like you." Seriously, how old are you? I'm guessing 19 tops. Funny that you mention your Dad is sceptical of religion when it is your Mom who married a Catholic. You are offensive and arrogant as usual! You don't think it is strange that your Mom can break with her religion and yet you are still considered Jewish? I'm surprised sirens haven't sounded and 'balons' haven't dropped from the ceiling. Dapperdan, there is nothing further you can say, however offensive, to make me continue this colossal waste of time. We are all dumber for having wasted our time. May God have mercy on your soul. EVERYBODY ALREADY KNOWS THAT JUDAISM ACCEPTS CONVERTS YOU FOOL. EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT RUTH WAS A CONVERT. Stop trying to LIBEL people as anti-Semitic. MY ONLY MISTAKE WAS TAKING FOR GRANTED THAT PEOPLE ALREADY KNOW THAT JEWS ACCEPT CONVERTS. APPARENTLY THERE ARE JEWS WHO DON'T REALIZE THIS!!!!!! Dapperdan: "largely thanks to intolerant jackasses like you" LOL. Name one thing I said that was intolerant of Judaism? A critique of matrilineal descent? Trying to understand what Judaism is? Every further offensive response of yours will ignore this sincere effort of mine to engage you in your own statements. You said "clearly Judaism is more than a religion". Yet when I ask you about it, you don't answer. My only conclusion is that a critique of matrilineal descent so angers you, that it must be the central tenet of whatever Judaism is. I still don't fully understand it, since you won't elaborate on your own vague statements. Dapperdan, you are confused.

Answer: "Blood cult"? Funny definition! It is a much-debated question though - although some devout Jews might well consider it a religion, it's still the case that many who describe themselves as atheists nevertheless feel some kind of cultural tie to Judaism, and may describe themselves as "non-religious Jews". Of course, there is really no such thing as a race - the notion of races is now quite discredited, relying as it does on the fetishisation of various physical characteristics which really don't mean anything much. But it does seem that the Jewish 'culture' - if so it can be termed, and I confess I'm not entirely decided - does have some transmission through maternal lines. But of course, the practice of Jewish culture in say Canada may be entirely different from its practice in Turkey. So perhaps it's more a network of cultures, with some social ties to the Jewish religion. Anyway - surely it's up to people who identify as Jewish to work this one out. There's enough defining and separating going on in the world - let's not engage in it as a fun past-time.

Question: Does Messianic Judaism recognize only matrilineal descent in determining Jewish identity? If a gentile woman converts to Judaism in a Messianic synagogue, naturally, her children are considered Jewish by the rest of the congregation. But suppose a man who was raised Chabad Lubovitch grows up and becomes secular, and then marries a gentile woman. He later converts to Messianic Judaism and joins a Messianic congregation. Will the Messianic rabbi consider his children to be full-fledged Jews? Or will they need to go through the conversion process on their own, despite having a Jewish father? Thank you to those who have responded, but I'm asking Messianic Jews what THEY teach. The opinion of the other four major N. American Jewish denominations is not my focus here. Forgive me if this seems blunt, but some of the other Jewish groups openly accept practicing homosexuals, avowed atheists, and those who violate every standard of Torah law from Shabbat to Bible-kashrut as Jews. One group tries to establish Jewish peoplehood while denying the reality of the God of Heaven. As far as I'm concerned, all of that is spitting in the face of God, spitting on the Torah, and consittutes a chillul hashem. And then THEY are going to tell ME who a Jews is? Let's just say that I find their opinions to be quite unpersuasive, and I'm putting it kindly. Jesus (Yeshua) was a Jew. The early apostles were all Jews. The early church consisted of thousands of Jews. Christianity was historically considered a denomination of Judaism, even under Roman law. These are historical facts. Emo, what you just said is ridiculous! You said "no Chabad Jew would convert to Messianic Judaism"--wake up and smell the coffee. At the church where I was baptized as an Apostolic Pentecostal, two of the members had been Orthodox Jews. There are THOUSANDS of Jews who have studied out the evidence and now believe in Jesus (not all are Messianic, of course, but many are). What on earth makes you think Chabadniks would be exempt? Wow...talk about a fantasy world..... Hatikvah: I'm not a Messianic Jew; I'm an Apostolic Pentecostal. Marcus---once again, I'm asking the Messianic Jews for their perspective. You are free to believe whatever you want to, but you don't get to decide for everybody else.

Answer: ***Does Messianic Judaism recognize only matrilineal descent in determining Jewish identity?*** A better question would be do the Jewish scriptures recognize only matrimonial descent in determining Jewish identity? The answer is no, of course not. Any serious student of the Tanach would know Ahaziah's mother did not convert to Judaism. As mama_pajama_1 says: ***Jezebel, as a princess of Sidon (1 Kings 16:31), was a Phoenician, not a Jew.*** Serious students of the scriptures would know that the kings of Israel were Jews. If there were exceptions to the rule, then it would have been noted in the record by those giving the account under the direction of the oral Torah. Given that the writer of the record had access to better information, namely, experiencing the even personally instead of being totally dependent on someone else's writing living in a different culture in a different time, legal analysis would always accept the first hand experience. No one practicing law fairly and ethically could ever allow the person reading only the writing of an eye witness years after the event to say, "That isn't the right interpretation of what happened. Here, let me tell you what really happened so you know how to think about this event." So when the prophet who was responsible for perfectly passing the oral Torah to the next generation said, ***I Kings 22:52 Ahaziah the son of Ahab began to reign over Israel in Samaria in the seventeenth year of Jehoshaphat king of Judah, and he reigned two years over Israel. 53 And he did that which was evil in the sight of HaShem, and walked in the way of his father, and in the way of his mother, and in the way of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, wherein he made Israel to sin. 54 And he served Baal, and worshiped him, and provoked HaShem, the G-d of Israel, according to all that his father had done.*** http://www.hareidi.org/bible/1_Kings22.htm#50 and no other true prophet corrects him, then the reader can either believe or reject the Jewish scripture, but can't change the scripture to comply with their personal belief. Therefore, the Jewish Scripture stand as written or the authority and reliability of all scripture is diminished...not simply the verse that someone wants to change. As the scripture upholds Ahaziah right to be a Jew and not label him an "apostate Jew", then there is no way for us at this point in time to correct the prophet's account without also putting the authority and reliability of all scriptures into question. And there is no fair and ethical way to label just Ahaziah as an "apostate Jew" without stating that all Israel during his time were "apostate Jews" because the prophet said to HaShem, ***1 Kings 19:'What doest thou here, Elijah?' 10 And he said: 'I have been very jealous for HaShem, the G-d of hosts; for the children of Israel have forsaken Thy covenant, thrown down Thine altars, and slain Thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.'*** The problem is that all of Israel had "forsaken Thy covenant" making all the children of Israel "apostate." Therefore, it is impossible to say that Ahaziah was the only acception to the rule. There is no way to look back and gain other information to the Jewish scriptures about Ahaziah. So either the Jewish scriptures stand with Ahaziah being fully Jewish and not an "apostate Jew" or a non-Jew or the Jewish scriptures should be considered historically accurate and all its teaching about HaShem is questionable. My believe is that all the Jewish Scripture is accurate and reliable and therefore its teaching about HaShem and Ahaziah are also accurate and reliable. Hope this helps EDIT If we are not Jews, then we are Gentiles / Pagans. There are only two Biblical choices of what you are. There is no third option. When God called Israel out of Egypt, there were only 2 choices. Put the blood of the lamb on the door or not. There was no third option as only those with the blood of the lamb on the door were passed over. All the others were not. When Marcuss says that Messianic Jews aren't Jews, he is really saying that Messianic Jews are pagans that do not share the original manuscripts known as the Jewish scriptures and do not have the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as their God. In other words, Marcuss' desire to own the word, "Jew" must also be seen as a desire to exclusive rights to the King of the Universe, the God of Israel as the Jewish scriptures describe. As a Converted Messianic Jew, I came to know the God of Israel because of my study of the Jewish scriptures. My God not only created me but equipped me for every good work that He created me to do. He called and commissioned me into His service as I would not know why I was made if my Creator didn't tell me. As God as my witness, there is no way I am a pagen or Gentile or any of the other words that fit under this category. As there is no other scriptural description of being a child of the God of Israel without also being a child of Israel, I converted. And the Holy Spirit sealed my conversion. There aren't more Biblical choices. There are only Jews and Gentiles. ***See, one can NOT convert to Judaism by becoming a Baptist. See how that works? And, no...it is NOT "a matter of opinion!" it is a matter of law!*** Kate J EDIT 2 The angels have the Arc Light. said: "So in your mind, the Roman Empire is a more authoritative source on Jewish law than Judaism." Here is part of history of Judaism during the Roman empire. 1. The government of Roman ruled Israel. 2. The children of Israel spoke as the Romans because of the Roman rule. 3. It was while Rome was ruling that Solomon's Temple was renamed "Herod's Temple." 4. While Rome ruled, the High Priest was selected by Rome instead of the ways the Torah mandated. 5. It was after a failed revolt that Rome tore down Herod's Temple and effectively stopped the sacrifices as the Torah describes to this day. 6. The writing of the oral Torah occurred during the Roman rule even though Israel had be conquered several times before. So, yes, Rome apparently had "more authoritative source on Jewish law than Judaism" during its day and is the reason behind the large changes from the Biblical Judaism to modern Judaism.

Question: Cultural Anthropology: What is the difference between matrilineal and patrilineal descent groups? In what type of culture is each of these groups common? I understand that patrilinieal descent is traced through the male line, and that matrilineal is traced through the female line, but I am having a little trouble finding which groups each are common in in my notes. I am studying for my final, and it is going to be a 2 part question. I want to say that groups that are matrilineal in nature are subsistences farmers and pastoralists, and that patrilineal are foragers and intensive agriculturalists, but I am not sure if that is right or not. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Answer: Patrilineal descent is by far the most common, although matrilineal descent is much easier to verify. Jews trace their descent matrilineally, although they didn't in biblical times. Jews inherit their 'Jewishness' through the mother, although like most of western society, they inherit their last names from their fathers.

Question: What Jewish communities go by patrilineal descent? I know that Rabbinic Judaism goes my matrilineal descent, but that Juhurim/Mountain Jews and some other Central Asian Jewish communities go by patrilineal descent as Jewishness, any others go by patrilineal?

Answer: It really does not matter what the rabbis say...God makes no distinction between your mother and father as far as your or anyone elses Jewishness... Read the Bible, so many Jews and Jewish heroes and patriarchs are by gentile women...That is how the Jews got started...Wityhout those gentile women where woyuld the Jews be...exactly, non-existent. And when you look at the mtDNA of the Jews it is predominately European, which proves that Jewish men married local women in large numbers...The only way a woman is Jewish is through her father...Because there is no such thing as being genetically a Jewish female...The mtDNA of the Jews is as diverse as the Jews themselves, there are AT LEAST 12 different maternal lineages found amoung the Jews...You cannot prove your Jewishness so much through your maternal lineage...but you can, genetically, much much more through your father, than through your mother.... So if you are speaking of yourself, look at yourself as God sees you, not as the rabbis see... God sees you as a Jew regardless of whether it is through your mother or through your father...Whose opininion means more to you, God's or the rabbis?

Question: Matrilineal and patrilineal descent groups...? wt are the similarities between them...I know the differences, just need some similarities, thank you!

Answer: They are both from of uniliner descent and they both usually involve new couples moving from their own natal groups (to either the man or the woman's family's land, respectively).

Question: Homework help plz! Family descent in industrial societies? This type of descent is most common in industrial societies... A. bilateral B. double C. matrilineal D. patrilineal Thanks so much!

Answer: A. bilateral

Question: what lineage system does the diagramed family use? another anthropology question, under kinship lineage means unilineal descent group based on demonstrated descent. unilineal means matrilineal or patrilineal descent. matrilineal means in which people join the mother's group automatically after birth and stay a membet throught life. patrilineal (just change to father). but what in the world is diagramed family? I bet its something easy but I can't figure it out... help??

Answer: I believe it's just a graphical representation (diagram) of your family tree, you know, father, mother, children, .... Take a look at familytreemaker.com and checkout screenshots.

Question: Do you have to be Jewish to join the IDF? For someone who is not of Jewish descent along Patrilineal or Matrilineal lines, is it possible to join any arm of the Israeli Defence Forces?

Answer: No, you need only be a citizen.

Question: If I married a Jewish girl and had children with her, would our kids automatically be Jewish? This is a purely hypothetical question, as I (an agnostic and ethnic Bengali) am in no way Jewish. But I was wondering that since Jewish identity passes through matrilineal descent, whether all kids I had would become Jewish by birth? STAR if you think Jewish girls are cute!! (They are!)

Answer: I depends on which Rabbi is interpreting the Jewish law, but in general Orthodox Rabbis hold that being Jewish is passed on through the mother, so the child of a Jewish mother and a Gentile (non-Jewish) father is automatically Jewish, while the child of a Gentile mother and a Jewish father is not. Being Jewish is also a matter of culture and religious practice, though, which depends on the individual family. By the "you're Jewish if your mother was Jewish," standard, such Biblical figures as Kings David and Solomon were not Jewish, though, because they were descended in the maternal line from Ruth, who was a Moabite (not Jewish). I'm not sure how the Rabbis explain this. In the Reform movement, there is much support for also recognizing children of Jewish fathers and Gentile mothers as being Jewish, in the spirit of equality. Yes, Jewish girls are cute. So are Shiksas (Gentile girls).

Question: In spite of clear indications in the Torah, Tanakh, and millenia of Jewish law that Jewish descent is (cont)? matrilineal, why do some people try to insist Jewish descent is patrilineal? sad t see someone trying to post missionary propaganda which is completely off topic. Ah well, expecting missionaries to behave themselves is hardly something anyone expects! JOnathan: I stated it is in the Torah- right fro the start of Judaism: Devarim Chaoter 7 v3. it is also in the Tanakh- Read Ezra Chapter 10 and how the Jewish men put their non-Jewish wives and childen aside. It is also found in the Mishnah in masechta Kiddushin and in the Talmud in masechta Yevamos. It has always been matrilineal and has never changed. biblechoice: TRIBAL inheritance is patrilineal, RELIIOUS inheritance is matrilineal. As I said before- you find it in the Torah, and tanah- or do you simply choose to ignore Ezra Chapter 10 where it is clear that th children of Jewish men with non-Jewish women are seen as non-Jewish?

Answer: Because of ignorance as regards Judaism. Until I began to frequent the R&S section of Y!A, I had never given the subject any thought at all. But even after I was told by Jews themselves what makes a person Jewish (conversion or mother being Jewish) I persisted for a while in thinking that Judaism was also an ethnicity. Lol! Took me a while to give that one up. Some people, like me, are just thickheaded and that's all there is to it :P

Question: Question for Jews? Regarding Matrilineality in Judaism.? According to the law of matrilineal descent, children born to a Jewish mother would be Jews themselves. But what if the father is a Jew and the mother happens to be non-Jewish? Would the children still be considered Jews, even if they don't practice Judaism?

Answer: answer: SOME Reform rabbis will accept the children of a Jewish father IF they have been raised in a Jewish home. If they weren't raised Jewish by a Jewish father, they aren't Jewish. Some Reform rabbis are reluctant to declare the children of Jewish fathers as Jewish and encourage actual conversions.